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thisistausif
India

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Topic Started by thisistausif
on 9/10/2005 7:38 AM   
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have u ever seen any animal performing his natural death?

no?
why ?
does the animal knows the time of his death and go somewhere lonely ?

if they know then does ma also knows ?

please think on this topic, this can change the way u think about soul


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marcia
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Posted By marcia
on 9/10/2005 14:59 PM   
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yes, why do do dogs go away when they die? My dog went far away from the house when she died. We did find her. I know of other people whose dogs went off too. I don't know what you mean by ma?

"Some men see things as they are and say why.
I dream things that never were and say why not."
Robert F. Kennedy

"I have not failed 1,000 times. I have successfully discovered 1,000 ways that do not work, and I do not need to try them again." Thomas Edison

"Life's most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?" Martin Luther King, Jr

"Be the change you want to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi





nin1318
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Posted By nin1318
on 9/13/2005 11:42 AM   
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i think that was supposed to be "man."

i have also heard of stories of cats as well either going away or finding someplace secluded when they are going to die...i have never seen an animal die naturally, but i have felt that they clearly know when it's time. my cat had cancer and i could definitely tell that she was ready when it got bad......



SanDiablo
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Posted By SanDiablo
on 9/13/2005 11:17 AM   
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Some know, some don't. I've had cats who clearly knew. Some went away. One went behind the toilet. Some sat at the end of my bed in their cozy spots and shivered and convulsed and scared the crap out of me. Another we found sitting on the couch with her claws dug into the fabric...I think death snuck up on her, or perhaps she was just too ornery to go gently.

I've had family members who knew they were about to die, and they called everybody to say goodbye. Then others who left suddenly, and probably preferred it that way (they weren't sentimental).

I don't think it changes the way I view a soul, because I believe that a soul is a consequence of electrobiochemical reactions...another form of energy not fully understood and beyond characterization by itself.

Why do you ask?

A group of frogs is called an army.
A group of army officers is called a mess.



thisistausif
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Posted By thisistausif
on 9/17/2005 8:19 AM   
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why does this happens that they knows of their death a short before that .



SanDiablo
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Posted By SanDiablo
on 9/17/2005 11:38 AM   
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"Why" do they know? or "How" do they know?

I suppose the "why" of it might find an explanation in the evolutionary process of natural selection. It is well documented that elephants leave the heard and go to a specific place to die...perhaps it is to spare the living from potential disease or attraction of predators and carrion eaters that might endanger the rest of the herd.

Or, perhaps it is to spare the emotions of the herd. Elephants are VERY sentimental. For example, when a mother cow is killed, her calf will remain with her, bawling and starving, and the rest of the herd becomes very agitated. So maybe, by going away to die, an elephant lets the rest of the herd "know" that natural death is approaching, and there is no cause for alarm or distress, and that the herd should take care of each other and move on and survive.

That explanation may be a bit anthropomorphic (great word!), but can you see how such behavior might introduce a survival advantage?

As for the "how" an animal knows death is approaching...there must be some sort of biochemical sensing of cellular apoptosis associated with terminal conditions...it would make for interesting, if difficult study...I suppose a time course study of wholesale gene expression changes might shed some clues on how life is ending, but how would the researcher "know" when the study animal "knows"...?

A group of frogs is called an army.
A group of army officers is called a mess.




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Posted By Hamad Abu Zahra
on 9/19/2005 6:18 AM   
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no one can ever know when he/she will die .

no matter how much science develop, you cant stop it it prevent it

the only thing that can help us is to do good deeds in life



jstaylor
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Posted By jstaylor
on 11/29/2005 19:01 PM   
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I suspect that the answer to the question of "how do animals know when they are about to die" is much simpler than it seems: They don't.

It seems that when an animal is about to die it will seek to hide not because it wishes to spare the feelings of its fellows at its death, but because, from the poiint of view of the animals, the pain that it feels is indicative of its being attacked. Given that it has no obvious attacker, the animal's response is to hide. If the animal gets better it will reappear; if it doesn't, it will be ascribed with the power of "foreseeing its own death."

The claim that animals moving away from their herds to die might have an evolutionary explanation doesn't really make much sense. Herd animals are migratory; if they die, the herd will soon be away from the carcase anyway. I also suspect that elephants don't disappear to spare others' feelings. Humans are sentimental, too, and yet tend to cluster when death is imminent.



Bettye
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Posted By Bettye
on 12/8/2006 15:04 PM   
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Well, I don't think we can -really- say how an animal feels or doesn't feel. We don't have enough data to say that an animal simply goes away to hide from predators, either.



Protoplast
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Posted By Protoplast
on 12/12/2006 20:43 PM   
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I would say the most logical explanation in terms of an evolutionary species selection type of thing would be;
in order to increase the fitness of the population of the individual's group, a particularly ill individiual may impose on its self an exile so as not to use the resources of its group, and in order to increase the fitness of the group by warding away any predators, and forms of disease. SO a genetic marker may be associated with this behaviour, encoding for behaviour that when an animal in very very ill, it will leave the area to increase fitness of the population. There are lots of strange things like that in nature, i cant quite remember my third year uni lectures on population genetics, but this seems to sound reasonable.



guy
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Posted By guy
on 12/31/2006 21:00 PM   
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I guess one can always think that there are somethings that we can not explaiy YET by science.
I know that Elephants in Africa before dieing are going to a place which is known as "Elephant cemetery and are deiing over there.
There are other stories like that.
All of us must bare in mind that we dont know evrything and maybe there are some things that are behond our explanations.
Guy



Gorfkinder
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Posted By Gorfkinder
on 5/17/2010 22:44 PM   
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I always assumed that animals that hide when near death were hiding from preditors. They know they are weak, this also explains why humans 'cluster' protection.



Suola
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Posted By Suola
on 5/18/2010 8:48 AM   
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Everyone,

As pointed out, dying and dead individuals can pose a threat to the rest of the population in various ways. Going away to die gives no advantage to the dying individual, so why this behaviour, can evolutionary theory explain this?

Of course it can! Enter Richard Dawkins. The gene-centric view on evolution, pioneered by him, explains this quite thorougly: Those behaviour-related alleles that make the dying individuals leave, and hence spare the rest of the population from potential harm, have been enriched in the population over time because exactly this kind of self-serving behaviour in the past. It's better for the continuance of these existence of these alleles to one individual perish with one or two copies, than put the whole population, and all copies, at risk. (The rest of the individuals likely carry at least some of the same alleles than the dying animal because they are likely related).

One more comment. Animals also go away to heal from wounds and sickness, exactly the same behaviour. So one cannot infer from this behaviour that the animal "knows" anything about dying.

So evolution, and science generally, can and will explain everything. With elegance. Without relying to hocus-pocus.

Cheers,

Certainty of death, small chance of success... What are we waiting for? - Gimli


Last edited May 18, 2010, 11:23 AM by Suola


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Posted By Rajeshwari patel
on 3/24/2011 0:12 AM   
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Yes I think  what Gorfkinder is assumed



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